Rants and Raves

Opinion, commentary, reviews of books, movies, cultural trends, and raising kids in this day and age.

Wednesday, March 26, 2008

Whither Europe?

Please look here:

This is an English comedian commenting very seriously on Muslims in England.

http://www.dotsub.com/films/moredemands/index.php?

(Sorry if you have to cut-and-paste, this site doesn’t seem to be linking anymore.)

Now look at the response I got immediately from a correspondent in Europe. He's a young (20s), well-educated Englishman who ought to be the poster boy for the New Europe since he has a Polish father, lives in Poland and married there.

Full disclosure: The response is genuine and quoted without alteration, but I knew I was going to get something like this when I sent it.

That is to say, this is ambush journalism, a practice I ordinarily don't like. I may regret this tomorrow morning - and then again I may not. I spent yesterday covering the change-of-plea hearing for a couple who starved a baby to death, and I'm in a very bad mood.

To quote from a further response of mine (it went on for a few more) "Though not Jewish myself, I have Jewish relatives and I think I'd have a lot more if more people in Europe had spoken up when speaking up might have made a difference."

So how typical is this attitude? Loathing ones own country to the point of magnifying it's faults, while forgiving those of a culture entirely antithetical to it, anti-semitism, etc.

I don't know. I fear it's probably more common than we'd like.

In a future post I'll take up what I think this means for Europe. For now, I'd like some feedback.

And BTW, I'll also probably review Jonah Goldberg's "Liberal Fascism" and quote the Fascist party platform.


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“Oh please Steven - don't tell me that you're taking the rants of this cockney fascist seriously. Not only does he not distinguish between Muslims, Saudis, terrorists and the British Asian in the street, he gives no details of the substance of the alleged human rights violation mentioned earlier. His answer to the complaint, in keeping with the values of free speech he so eloquently defends, is to shout them down and throw abuse at the speaker. He goes on to make spurious arguements to support his claims that we are somehow being very fair to Muslims. Well, sorry the police smashed your door in looking for non-existent bomb-making materials, Abdul, but we have built a nice mosque for you down the road so everything's OK.

Typical Daily Mail-inspired nonsense for suburbial white trash. This loser does not speak for me and I find it vaguely offensive that he repeatedly asserts that he does.”

===============================================

Note that this begins with a class insult ("cockney", not necessarily an insult but in this context pretty clearly one), and a general insult for "political position I don't like" devoid of any other meaning ("fascist"), and ends with with an insult both classist and racist ("Daily-mail inspired... suburbial white trash".)


I replied:

First: define Facist - as in name a single plank on the "Fascist" platform. Musollinni's or the present-day Italian Fascist Party will do.

You had to Google it. You used a label that meant nothing to you, only an insult that reassured you "I don't have to think about that one."

Are you referring to the non-existent bomb-making material that materialized on your 7/7? Or perhaps the honor killings, forced marriages, car torchings, riots etc that have become so much a feature of the west European landscape that your media doesn't seem to notice anymore.

Jyllands Posten anyone? How many men was it they arrested in a plot to murder a 72-year-old cartoonist last month? And where was the Muslim outrage and the cries that they don't represent true Islam?

Sorry guy, you had a nice little civilization going, but you're losing it because you don't have the guts to stand up for it.

____________________________________________________________________________________

Reply:

Fascist as in Pat Robertson the BNP's pin-up boy. If it looks like a fascist and quacks like a fascist to me it's a fascist. When I speak of non-existant bomb making materials, if we forget for a moment about all those weapons of mass destruction that were stored by the muslims in Iraq, I'm talking about the incidents where the police raid a house for suspects and then quietly release them when no evidence is found. Remember the ricin gang? Of course you don't. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2003/01/10/nbio210.xml

You know as well as I do the British government have a long history of this behaviour in Northern Ireland and so putting it to use on non-whites comes quite naturally.

"And where was the Muslim outrage and the cries that they don't represent true Islam?"

And where is the outrage with this story? Pat's on a loser because he knows very well there's no story here.

And there's nothing wrong with our civilisation, thank you. If there really is a threat to it then, if anything, it will become stronger because of it. Anyway, European culture has been under threat for decades from commercialisation of traditions such as halloween and the subtle rewriting of histrory by the predominantly Jewish film industry in hollywood (300 is a classic example)

No, I'll need more than ill-informed rants from Pat Goebbles to convince me to ethnically cleanse Europe of Mohammedans thank you very much.

7 Comments:

  • At 10:07 AM, Blogger Joseph Sixpack said…

    The commenter's response struck me as incredibly ignorant, particularly this part, "Not only does he not distinguish between Muslims, Saudis, terrorists and the British Asian in the street..."

    It was fairly obvious to me that Pat was griping about militant, radical Islam and not mainstream Islam. He made this clear when he pointed out that the people who insult Islam are those who strap on suicide vests and detonate among others. In other words, terrorists are not mainstream Muslims. Was this too confusing?

    The commenter seems to fall into the non-thinking trap of assuming that if someone makes a statement outside the boundaries of political correctness, then it must be offensive and bigoted, rather than an unpleasant assertion that may be true.

    I encounter this fairly often. I spent nearly 3 years in Iraq and I have more respect for many Iraqis than I have for most Americans and must often explain that Iraqis are normal people who just want to raise a family. I also defend our military actions around the world by pointing out the barbarity of, and danger posed by, various militant radical Islamic organizations. Some people find those two positions to be contradictory. They can't understand how I view Iraqis favorably and militant radical Islamic organizations with contempt. The reason is that they lump all Muslims into one amorphous group. While your commenter criticized such a notion, he/she also embraced it by assuming that a criticism of terrorists amounted to a criticism of Islam, which it clearly did not.

     
  • At 11:43 AM, Blogger Ken said…

    I expect the attitude of "Loathing ones own country to the point of magnifying it's faults, while forgiving those of a culture entirely antithetical to it" is very common. It's been written about frequently and much better than I ever could by other people. And it's used against us very easily.

    You didn't list all of your correspondence with this guy, but I'm sure you noticed how he doesn't answer your questions;

    "And where was the Muslim outrage and the cries that they don't represent true Islam?"

    "And where is the outrage with this story? Pat's on a loser because he knows very well there's no story here."

    If it's something you'd rather not think about or if you don't like the answer, change the subject.

    "No, I'll need more than ill-informed rants from Pat Goebbles to convince me to ethnically cleanse Europe of Mohammedans thank you very much."

    Also use false claims to make the other guy seem worse. I watched the film and I don't remember him endorsing ethnic cleansing.

    People have a tendency to believe things that fit into their world view. And there seems to be a lack of real critical thinking.

    I'm just going with posting this for now. There's a big can of worms here.

     
  • At 12:19 PM, Blogger Tim Starr said…

    Let me get this straight: He calls those opposed to Islamo-Fascism "Fascists," then complains about the threat to European culture from commercialization & the Jewish-dominated American film industry?

    "Pot, Kettle, black," doesn't seem adequate here.

    -Tim Starr

     
  • At 4:41 AM, Blogger Eduardo said…

    I hate to say so, Steve, but you've met your match. Surely you know now that you are defeated by the invincible trifecta of soundbites, to wit:

    the charge of facism
    no WMD in Iraq
    Jewish cabal re-writing history

     
  • At 2:03 PM, Blogger Steve Browne said…

    Tim (above) is kicking his ass in email exchanges and I'm strongly tempted to post them.

    Me, I'm still too pissed off about that dead baby. I looked evil in the face and have very little patience right now for people who want to wish it away.

     
  • At 8:09 PM, Blogger trollsmyth said…

    Is it intellectually hypocritical and lazy of me to discount his arguments as little more than vapid ramblings after reading his comment about the Jews rewriting history?

    Yeah, it probably is. But I've only got so many hours in the day, and those who have drunk from the anti-Semite Kool-aid rarely have anything new to add to any conversation.

    - Brian

     
  • At 6:04 PM, Blogger Ted said…

    Sounds like your typical, Kool-Aid drinking Liberal Democrat in America to me.
    Ten bucks says this genius thinks the same British Government that's wet-nursing, bottle-feeding and falling all over itself to import more of the Muslims out of pure white guilt, is a repressive evil that goes out of its way to find reasons to throw them in "gaol".
    Sorry to say, most suicide bombings, violent "protests" and terrorist attacks I've heard of were not perpetrated by Pat Robertson, Funny-mentalist Christians, little old ladies, Senators awarded the Congressional Medal of Honor, or white businessmen with artificial hips...Maybe the commenter could assimilate those factoids into his "profiling" database.

    On balance, it must be said that the Muslims only have a tendency to become dangerous when given an unending supply of taxpayer-subsidized "freebees" handouts and concessions by those they seek to kill (hint-hint)!

     

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