Democracy's soft underbelly, Part 2
OK, so the study shows 40% of the Muslim students surveyed are fairly to very supportive of a world-wide caliphate under Sharia law,and a total of 32% believe in killing in the name of religion to "preserve and protect" or "if it is under attack."
And... the percent answering "not sure" is 42% and 15% respectively.
I have to ask, not sure? You mean like, maybe it's a good idea but I'm not sure?
Like, if all your friends said it's a good idea, would you be more sure?
What if they said you weren't a good Muslim, maybe even a bad Muslim? Maybe even a really bad Muslim, if you didn't favor a Caliphate or weren't willing to kill for the faith?
Do you think that would affect your attitude? Do you think the disapproval of your co-religionists might be a tad... dangerous?
Now imagine what the worst consequence would be of the disapproval of your democratic liberal Brittish fellow-citizens, if you embraced the ideals of the most fanatic in your community?
Now I have to ask, how do you define "under attack"?
Do you mean, say... drawing satiric cartoons?
What would you think of a level of blasphemous satire, say, equivalent to what South Park subjects Jesus and Scientology to?
Now let's get back to the disapproval of your fellow-citizens in the UK, steeped in the noble tradition of democratic liberalism.
(No I'm NOT being facetious. Democratic-liberalism may be the noblest political ideal the human race has ever come up with. I don't like it that the term "liberal" has been hijacked by people who are not worthy to wear it though.)
What would that disapproval mean to you British Muslims?
Thought so, not much to me either.
That's what I mean by the "soft underbelly" of democracy.
And to be perfectly fair, that's what the Brits should have learned from the Irish.
In a democracy, where issues are decided by weight of opinion, a minority willing to use violence has a disproportionately weighted vote.
How disproportionate?
I think that depends on at what point the majority is willing to push back, and how hard.
And what if the answer is, not until too late, and not hard enough?
And... the percent answering "not sure" is 42% and 15% respectively.
I have to ask, not sure? You mean like, maybe it's a good idea but I'm not sure?
Like, if all your friends said it's a good idea, would you be more sure?
What if they said you weren't a good Muslim, maybe even a bad Muslim? Maybe even a really bad Muslim, if you didn't favor a Caliphate or weren't willing to kill for the faith?
Do you think that would affect your attitude? Do you think the disapproval of your co-religionists might be a tad... dangerous?
Now imagine what the worst consequence would be of the disapproval of your democratic liberal Brittish fellow-citizens, if you embraced the ideals of the most fanatic in your community?
Now I have to ask, how do you define "under attack"?
Do you mean, say... drawing satiric cartoons?
What would you think of a level of blasphemous satire, say, equivalent to what South Park subjects Jesus and Scientology to?
Now let's get back to the disapproval of your fellow-citizens in the UK, steeped in the noble tradition of democratic liberalism.
(No I'm NOT being facetious. Democratic-liberalism may be the noblest political ideal the human race has ever come up with. I don't like it that the term "liberal" has been hijacked by people who are not worthy to wear it though.)
What would that disapproval mean to you British Muslims?
Thought so, not much to me either.
That's what I mean by the "soft underbelly" of democracy.
And to be perfectly fair, that's what the Brits should have learned from the Irish.
In a democracy, where issues are decided by weight of opinion, a minority willing to use violence has a disproportionately weighted vote.
How disproportionate?
I think that depends on at what point the majority is willing to push back, and how hard.
And what if the answer is, not until too late, and not hard enough?
posted by Steve @ 7:52 PM
8 Comments:
At 10:59 AM,
Joseph Sixpack said…
I think the polls are more representative of the atmosphere surrounding religion and the changing of the culture than of what the real views of Muslims in the UK are. I think answering affirmatively is partly a means of expressing frustration and partly due to an assumption that the pollster's question is code for "do you support the actions of the US and UK in Iraq?" In such a polarized climate, I think the underlying message is decoded as, "If you think that killing is justifiable to defend Islam, then you oppose the UK's efforts in Iraq and vice versa."
If I were smarter, then I could explain it more clearly. I'll take a stab it with an example from real life. I often had Iraqis tell me that all problems in Iraq are due to us and everything would get better if we left. Once they calmed down, I would ask, "what do you really think would happen if we left?" The response: "please don't leave. al-Qaeda will kill us."
People don't always say what they mean, especially if they think the question is part of a wider propaganda battle.
At 2:15 PM,
Steve said…
I saw something similar in Serbia after the NATO bombing.
I was sitting with a group in a sidewalk cafe on Knez Mihailova. A young lady scolded me for my country doing such a terrible thing.
Then a young man said, "But you know, I didn't mind some of the targets so much."
About UK Muslims I'm not so sure. Those news photos of demonstrations holding up signs demanding the beheading of cartoonists and all.
A gesture of course, and how seriously they take it is anyone's guess.
But human nature being what it is, if one can get something by threatening violence, it's natural to keep on doing it to see how much you can get.
At 5:37 AM,
Unknown said…
My goodness - are you two serious??
Really?
Haven't you been paying attention?
You are miles off and way behind boys, concerning the islamization in Europe,although the US isn't much different for what I've gleaned..Go to Frontpagemagazine Steve, or read Jihad Watch, if you are serious with regard to islamization..
At 8:23 AM,
Unknown said…
I can't resist sending you a link to a very alarming article on Jihad Watch of a Norwegian blogger..He is one of the many people working their tails off trying to educate the unsuspecting public to what extent official islamization is taking place in the damnable Eu, and also in the UN..
Maybe you should read it, friends, and step up your tempo a bit..Mohammed's rule is nearer than you think, I'm afraid.
http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/2008/07/022021print.html
At 7:50 AM,
Joseph Sixpack said…
LOL
Let me give you a few links to the Greenpeace website so that you can get overly alarmed about another exaggerated crisis.
At 9:35 AM,
Steve said…
I've lived long enough to remember when the crises du jour were overpopulation and the next ice age.
Yet, for Europe and large parts of Asia, I can't see any way around the demographics.
The native European population is breeding at a rate of 1.3 overall. Muslims, already at 10-11% of the population in France, breed at a rate three to five times higher.
Whatever that might mean, I have a hard time imagining it meaning anything good.
And if that isn't enough of a crisis, consider that because of sex-selective abortions and outright infanticide, the male to female ratio in China, and increasingly in India, is terribly skewed.
How skewed is something I've been trying to find hard data on for years. Estimates for China run into the tens of millions.
That tens of millions of horny young men who will NEVER be able to find wives.
Unless there's a massive die-off.
The last time this happened in China on such a scale preceded the T'ai Ping Rebellion, which set records for casualties which lasted well into the 20th century.
At 9:37 AM,
Steve said…
Ponytail, are you on any discussion lists where Anonymous can post?
I find myself wishing to discuss things with you and the like-minded that I'd prefer not to have attributed, for reasons of personal safety.
At 6:44 PM,
Unknown said…
Well Steve - that says it all, I think :-)
I sometimes respond on Gates of Vienna, on Atlas Shrugs, Brussels Journal.
Sixpack, it's not that I expect a crisis because any website says I should; I visit these websites because I think something is very wrong, and the mainstream media keep mum about it.
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